“The biggest threat from AI? That we stop thinking critically ourselves”

He started his career as a designer at startups and tech companies, but became fascinated by artificial intelligence early on. That interest runs like a common thread through his work and now comes together in his role as CEO and founder of Gymly: an all-in-one platform for gyms and fitness studios.

Hey Joël! I came across a six-year-old video of you in which you were already talking about how AI could speed up the design process. Well before the ChatGPTs and Midjourneys came out. Where does that interest in AI come from?

The film Her was an eye-opener. It showed that you can experience a relationship with technology as if it were human. That got me thinking: how do you design an experience like that well? What design principles are behind it, how do you deal with data integrity, and how do you make sure the relationship between humans and AI stays healthy and ethical?

So when you saw Her, your designer brain kicked into gear?

Yes, pretty much. We’re talking to a screen right now too (the interview took place online, ed.). But in the future, conversations with AI may well feel the same. We’re creating a kind of bond with a device. That view of the future still fascinates me enormously.

And I’m a problem solver by nature, but also a real nerd. So I love this kind of shit. When I see things like this, I immediately start thinking about how you could design an experience like that well.

Funny that you see it that way. Do you also see it the other way around: that AI can help make good design?

Yes. As a designer, you want to make products simpler and more user-friendly. For me, the best design is often about leaving features out: the fewer buttons or options, the more intuitive the experience becomes. Machine learning can play a huge role in that. It’s incredibly good at recognizing patterns, and that way it can take complexity away.

During my master’s I worked on Machine Learning-based predictive UX, or Anticipatory Design. Quite a mouthful, but it means you can make predictions based on data. That has been a common thread in my work ever since.

“I’m afraid we’ll end up with a culture of shortcuts, in which that reflection disappears.”

And do you use AI at Gymly as well?

Yes, but mainly for supporting tasks like code reviews and checks. Never for the critical processes. A human always has to look at those.

But I also see risks. AI can lead to declining intelligence. If we ask AI everything, we lose our ability to think critically and solve problems. That can make knowledge disappear. That’s why I think it’s important that we always stay critical ourselves and keep asking questions.

On top of that, AI can also change the relationship between people. When someone has AI write an email, you notice it right away. The tone of voice is different, less personal. When someone writes it themselves, you can feel the attention that went into it. That’s what makes communication authentic. I’m afraid we’ll end up with a culture of shortcuts, in which that reflection disappears.

And how do you guard that balance within your own team?

I work with experienced engineers who, fortunately, are much better than AI. But we are looking at how AI could support juniors in the future. Something else I find important is ownership and privacy: I don’t want our code to disappear into an American model and the ownership to end up there. We have to stay very sharp on that.

How do you see the future more broadly?

It’s bizarre, the times we’re living in. I lived through the rise of the personal computer and the smartphone, and now we’re at the point where AI is reaching the masses. Two centuries ago a discovery took generations; now it happens in months. That also puts responsibility on designers and engineers. We have to think about this actively and give it direction.

Do you actually get the sense that people in general realize everything that’s coming our way?

I don’t think so. A lot of people ignore it or think: I won’t live to see this anyway. There isn’t enough awareness yet. On top of that, AI is often framed negatively, while it actually gets me excited. AI can give us time to spend more with family or to develop ourselves. But older generations often don’t do much with it. My parents, for example, have never used GPT.

What do you miss in the conversation about AI?

A vision. There are new elections coming up, but I hardly ever hear politicians talk about AI. All the models we use now come from the US. We pay for them, but there are no agreements or policies. Data is knowledge. Knowledge is power. If Europe and the Netherlands give that away, we fall behind. I find it troubling that I haven’t yet heard a single politician talk seriously about AI and its impact on our society.

“For me, AI is a kind of design buddy. I upload my designs and get feedback on copy or design principles. It helps me test ideas and gives me inspiration.”

Okay, but you’re also clearly very enthusiastic about AI... Right?

Definitely! For me, AI is a kind of design buddy, for example. I upload my designs and get feedback on copy or design principles. It helps me test ideas and do research. And I use it creatively too: within our team we often make images with AI to explore new ideas. That’s a lot of fun, but it’s also a source of inspiration.

And at Gymly we also think a lot about how AI could shape the future of fitness and health. For example, we think it will eventually take over a lot of our work, so people will get more free time. A logical place to invest that time is health. So I believe fitness and well-being will play an even more important role in the future.

That would be great! Finally: who would you recommend for the next conversation?

I’d recommend Jorn van Dijk from Framer. I’ve been a customer since their early days and have a lot of respect for what they’ve built. It’s one of the best design companies in the world, with a culture that’s entirely focused on quality. Their work shows that digital products can be made at a world-class level.